OSO and Bartle's Taxonomy: why Yun shouldn't play like you

One of my biggest pet peeves on this site is how many Only Sense Online readers criticize Yun's actions because she doesn't play like they do. Sure, Yun is made to be a little too much of a doormat (the topic of whether doormat = feminine is an entirely different topic and will make its proponents sound stereotyped/chauvinistic regardless of realism). However, Yun's actions as a gamer does make sense, despite many complaints. And the fact many gamers sees Yun as "un-gamer-esque" is just another showing of how lopsided and poorly balanced many of our gaming environments are, and why many parts of the gaming community is struggling to pull in more players or even stay pertinent for more than a year or two.

Welcome to Bartle's Taxonomy, or the study of the four player types -- achievers, explorers, socializers, and killers -- and how they balance a proper, thriving, and long-term gaming ecosystem

(Yes, if you don't follow Daybreak or couldn't tell thus far, one of my scholarly hobbies -- aside from worldbuilding, history, psychology/sociology/philosophy, and international cultural interactions/relations, is Game Design. It's a topic I suggest any gamer at least dabble in; if nothing else, it's like "psychology for gamers" and allows people to sound more educated/self-aware and less stupid).

So what is Bartle's Taxonomy? Better people than me have explained it. Here (or skip for the tl;dr version):

 

TL;DR the four types of gamers being. Keep in mind that a player may meet multiple categorizations:

  • Achievers: those who want to meet game goals or personal ambitions and are driven by leveling, equipment gathering, ranking, etc. Achievers hate Killers (although a lot of Achievers are also Killers and vice versa -- just like in the real world, power and ambition feeds off one another).
  • Explorers: those who are out to explore new worlds and test new mechanics. Explorers self-propagate (one successful expedition only leads to more expeditions) and benefit Achievers and Socializers as they find new goals and bring more topics of conversation into the game, thereby realizing the full potential of a game's contents and extending the game's lifespan.
  • Socializers: those who are less all-about-the-game and more about it being an environment to socialize, mingle, and talk. Socializers allow a game to 'slow down' and offer a richer environment to pull players in than just 'grind-kill-grind'; they're the ones who establish that important community (wiki, forums, etc) and allow a game to last longer without new content. Socializers also self-propagate and they hate Killers, who generally gets in the way of them having a good time.
  • Killers: those who thrive off trolling others or want to achieve a sense of dominance over others. Killers love killing off Achievers (who get angry) and Socializers (who are easy picking), and are thus attracted by them; however they often find Explorers a pain. Killers are the most disagreeable player base (they're like a virus), but they also serve a key purpose: having some Killers make the game more challenging and exciting without the developers having a tweak everything, so studios can focus on more content instead; but too many Killers will spiral out of control quickly -- just like how games that are too difficult quickly drain the fun out of it.

For a MMO to become successful, it needs a balance of player types -- because they feed off (or ward off) one another. MMOs who lack a good player balance will usually quickly run out of steam and die off as players become bored with it.

This is where I must applaud OSO because it manages to achieve a balance of these four types that we rarely see in MMORPGs, and Yun's mere presence is evidence. He represents the type of player that gives MMOs longevity and the lack of them is why most MMOs start dying within a few months of release.

I classify Yun as a combination between Explorer and Socializer, and you could sort of see why it happens. At home and in real life, Shun is the responsible older sibling who has very little time to think about his own needs. He's too busy worrying about what to buy and what to cook for dinner to go out and explore the world or spend more time with friends; and it doesn't help that Shun's friends/family are mostly gamers (which honestly, is uncommon but not unusual).

In the Explorer type, Yun leans more towards a mechanical explorer than world explorer (Shun is a coward and not good at being outside his comfort zone... which is again, expected as his daily life is very routine and he's happy with it). He is a cook and a curious person, so no surprise, his ingame persona Yun is primarily driven by the opportunity to explore new combinations, new items, new creations! (Ever talked to a cook for more than an hour? They love this). Among the player base, Yun's type serve as the "logistics" of the horde; she provide better supplies so they can tackle harder raids and higher goals without being too frustrated, or create better equipment made from new requirements that the Achievers must now gather, or simply new ideas (like the pets/slimes) that makes other players envious and want one for themselves.

In the Socializer type, Shun is one of those players who doesn't have enough time to meet all his social needs (with his gamer friends). He's not into all those hardcore raids and pvp, but he still needs a shared topic to talk about with them. Yun's experimentation/creations are one conduit; she might be alone at the time of it, but she is generating the discussion content that she lacks -- content that she ends up propagating into the community for the benefit of everyone. This is also why Yun will allow herself to be dragged into adventures every so while -- not because she necessarily likes the activity but because she wants the social hangout (this is typical 'doormat' personality behavior; they don't want it but they also do want it, and since they lack leadership traits to drive the action, they simply end up following along). If Taku was the more sensitive type, he'd take note of this and actually consult Yun more; but unfortunate he's the typical dense-as-a-rock male-protagonist type.

You'll also find other aspects of Bartle's Taxonomy at work in OSO, such as Yun shrugging off Pvp Killers and getting in their way with new discoveries.

So really, it's not that Yun doesn't play like a gamer, it's that Yun isn't an Achiever -- which is only one type of gamer. It is the most common one sure, but it is also the type of gamer that gives very little back to the community.

So stop expecting people like Yun to play like you do. It benefits everyone that she doesn't.

 

P.S. OSO may be more similar to the MMORPGs of the next generation than you think thanks to the Minecraft generation (actually, we're already starting to see this trend as MMOs increase the prevalence of crafting and increase opportunities for personalized space like homes and shopkeeping).

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61 thoughts on “OSO and Bartle's Taxonomy: why Yun shouldn't play like you

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  1. Naburo

    make a skyrim type mmo, where class is erased, but skill can be improved by constant use. add make some skill trees quest or achievement related. and the option to basically talk to monsters instead of sneaking, or plainly killing them. that would be explorer heaven.

    Reply
  2. artificer-urza

    By these definitions, I fall into the explorer archetype, but because of anti-social mentality, I find it hard to be with or rely on other players. I tend to drop an mmo because I encounter a dungeon that requires party play. I'm not sitting in queue for hours just waiting to do dungeon, thank you.
    I don't think we've seen any real 'killer' type players in OSO. Yeah we've seen players harass Yun (it was so bad at one point he couldn't leave his workshop without getting harassed), but they weren't actual player killers. So, I wonder what OSO's PVP seen is like, should it exist. Then again, since this is from Yun's perspective, we may never see that.

    Reply
    1. Seros Senric

      I'm going to comment here because so many people seem to misunderstand what the "killer" archetype is.

      In Bartle's theory, the Killer archetype does not require PK. In fact, games that don't have any PK still have players of the Killer archetype.
      Yes, many Killers do tend to be PKers - but PKing isn't their "real" goal.
      A quote from Bartle's original article is this: "Killers get their kicks from imposing themselves on others."
      This can be done through PK, harassment, kill-stealing, trolling, griefing, or any number of other ways. Basically, they get their enjoyment from upsetting or distressing others.

      Likewise, not all PK is from people in the Killer archetype, since much of it is from Achievers, or in some games, from every player. The taxomy is for MUDs and MMOs, but you can see the types in other game genres (say, Call of Duty or Counter Strike) where everything is PvP, but there are still far more Achievers than Killers. (Of course, for any non MMORPG game, the taxonomy is pretty useless as a tool)

      The main thing that makes someone a Killer is not killing someone. PK is just a "symptom".

      Reply
      1. AoriiAorii Post author

        They actually note that in the video, that Killers could also achieve their desire through market dominance and whatnot... though they didn't mention the despicable behavior like harassment and griefing, which is certainly a type of Killer behavior (and probably among the reasons why gaming sees more harassment and such than most other mediums).

        Reply
  3. DarkFireTim

    Something I found super interesting, and may account for some of the responses people are having to Yun and OSO, was a students psychology paper(?) that I found when I was looking for more info on Bartle's Taxonomy. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find it again, making quoting it difficult, but the gist of the paper was an attempt to use Bartle's Taxonomy to show why North American players have a hard time finding acceptance in another regions player base. The author used Southeast Asia, Europe, and Russia as his examples of other player bases. He said that his research; a combination of surveys, personal experience, interviews with AAA marketing departments, and interviews with game studio developer's showed that the NA player base contained/produced almost twice as many Killer type players than his three example regions. The second largest group in NA, again according to his research, was the Achiever type however almost half of that group played almost identically to the Killer type. The author asserted that this imbalance was responsible for the aggressive way North American players hold to the Meta of a game and deride/expel any player, with the exception of high profile streamer/professional players, who tries to deviate from the Meta. Which he asserted was the reason why North American players had a hard time fitting into other regions who had a more free form view of the Meta and encouraged, or at least were less hostile to, players that wanted to explore alternatives.

    I felt it was fairly obvious the author was more interested in making a point than he was in accurately reporting his data, possibly why I can't find the original paper again, but his conclusions were interesting food for thought. Also if his data was even half accurate it could explain the negative responses Yun's play style seems to be attracting. I mean the whole story is about avoiding/breaking/expanding the Meta of OSO which, according to what's his names paper, is fairly antithetical to the typical North American gamer's mindset/play style. Unless of course the dissenters are not largely from North America, in which case this entire post is less than helpful.

    Reply
    1. AoriiAorii Post author

      North American players have a hard time finding acceptance in another regions player base.

      To be fair, the US (Canadians/Mexicans are much better at this but also constitute much smaller populations) isn't exactly a country known for its humble attitudes or cultural sensitivity. Trace US history and one notices that it has gone through a period of institutionalized racism towards just about every culture and religion except Protestant Anglo-Saxons/Dutch.

      That being said: EC does a much better job positively examining this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os3lWIuGsXE

      Reply
  4. Quicksylver

    I never saw anything strange about the way Yun went about the game. I've been playing MMOs since the days of MUD's pre-internet. I've seen all of the player types, I've always been a mix myself and changed more from a killer to a socializer as I got older. People enjoy games in different ways. That's not BAD it's just DIFFERENT. Games aren't anywhere near as fun when you don't have a healthy mix of different kinds of players. Ultima Online was a fantastic mix of different kinds of players. Shadowbane was chock full of killers with a smattering of explorers and achievers.

    The idea that "because someone is enjoying a game different than how you would do it means they are doing it wrong" is absolutely ridiculous and immature and short sighted. I really like OSO partially BECAUSE Yun plays differently than I would. Shun is an interesting character and I like both him and his interactions with his friends and family. He does things I wouldn't think of or value and that makes the story more interesting.

    Reply
    1. Random

      I agree. There are already a lot of stories of what would be considered more typical video game stories. The fact that OSO is different is what makes it more interesting. Afterall, seeing the same pattern over and over again gets boring. Some variety is nice.

      Reply
  5. moutonslayer

    I read your translation and I like OSO (and your translation, thanks again for this ^^) and it's environment (in the sense world and community) even if this world is like a candy. I doesn't agree with your categorisation of player that you propose, the four type of player that you propose come from our MMO, but OSO can't be compared to our MMO. It is a game that is more more elaborate and profound (it let you be a player inside (and not outside) the game)

    In OSO the crafter are of the same importance than fighter (the mob don't drop good weapon and the quest doesn't give you weapon...), in our MMO crafters are important but they are only second class, OSO need player with the first class of a crafter because weapon and item need to be create and then customize. So Yun is one of the most important player in this type of game (some player's map of warcraft 3 (I speak of what I know)need this correspondence between crafter/"player" (I don't have the correct term XD)).

    Secondly, hunter, archer or what you call someone using a bow is always a class that prove his worth late in the game (generally it is very dependant to the base characteristics of the player or the weapon and this ones upgrade late in the game), it is a class that is very effective against magus and class with low defense, it has high attack and precision against one foe (So we just have to wait the moment where the bow will become mainstream like in this other novel (I don't find the name --')).

    The principal difference with a magus is it's capability to become a vanguard or a rear guard depending the situation (magus need mana and spirit but archer need dexterity and force like a rogue), Yun from the beginning is shown like someone who is stronger in it's role of support than in his leadership so the role of hunter is perfect for him : he isn't the main player of the group but he can switch efficiently during fight to compensate the weakness of his teammates.

    Finally the world of OSO exceed our imagination so it's very difficult to judge a game and its player,we can't imagine the reaction of the population or our reaction to a game that reproduce the reality with this much precision : you can fight and "kill" other "player"(people) without problem, it's not just 'haha I lose to you' but more like 'your sword decapitate me', it's not the same conversation and it doesn't imply the same meaning....

    I am not a native English speaker, so if you see grammatical or orthographic errors don't hesitate to correct me ^^

    Reply
  6. Sanngrior

    I am an unstable existence as far as this classification goes. in part due to an unstable personality trend, but meh...

    From what I can tell of the types I am:

    Achiever - veeery slim. I like to level up and reach a certain degree of competency to a game, I hate the feeling of "being on the bottom" so to speak. this leads me to try for at the very minimum to reach above the average gamer, where I can enjoy more of the core content and bonus features. stuff like completing the main storyline to access endgame content or free myself from the linear grind aspect of a game. (In some games this is actually just getting past the auto-grind-tutorial that seems to force people to a certain level range when most features start becoming available)

    Explorer - quite a bit. being able to find new stuff, keep learning and doing new things keeps me interested in a great number of games I have played, as well as stories I read or shows/movies I watch. I am the type who is often unable to re-read/watch anything I have seen before that has stuck too clearly in my mind. If I know what will happen next, then I tend to get bored of it, with only my favorite stuff being the exception. (stuff I don't mind knowing because I enjoyed it too much to care). In general, I am a world explorer, sometimes it includes lore or gets side-tracked by it for a while before returning, but I only explore the mechanics enough to know what to do, unless the aim of the function is indeed in the depth of mechanics (games that introduce a nicely functional crafting system with special or unique features).

    Socializer - varies on my mood and general situation. if life gets tough or crappy for a while, I tend to flick over to this mode and just sit around in games chatting, where I would normally be doing things. often enough I do this when I begin to get bored of a game but don't want to quit it just yet because of the invested time and effort. but the social aspect is only important to me as long as it properly connects me with other players who are matching my interests at the time. soloing a multiplayer game is one of the most boring things you could possibly do.

    killers - occasionally I troll. ocasionlly I want to sit there just hacking and slashing away at a never end horde of incoming enemies. Sometimes I am looking for a bit of thrill or excitement where high-speed close quarters PvP can cause an adrenaline rush, getting fully absorbed. but I don't really fit into this group all that well either.

    What I do know is that I am quite invested in a new game that is coming called Crowfall and that as of its release, I will become one of its resident hybrid-crafters :P So I am still a supporter of Yun being Yun. If I wanted Yun being Taku or Myu or Sei, then I would go off and read that story elsewhere, as I'm sure it has been done enough times xD

    Reply
  7. AoiUsagi

    i seen to be around Explorers 60% and 40% Achievers.
    i Socializers only if i in mood and killer if there someone annoying or ask to be killed, so i do hate killers.
    and not only what tells on killers that i hate them but also the action of killers itself that made me hate them. most player nowadays are 80% killer and 20% Achievers.
    they do not or seldom explorer, what they want to know is on guide or search engine, rarely one find something new itself unless it totally coincidence. brag like a kid when they are better on killing. these player are pushing them self so they can be on the top or be with some guild/clan on top. many guild/clan kicking player because they do not achieve some high level or being not active enough (so many player that work on real life have no guild/clan of pure player and often end up in socializer guild)
    and the game that priority on base on pure confrontation might be cool for some time but will perish or leave behind by most of the player (the left over usually the veteran killer+achiever type and some newbie that may leave the game if they are not killer+achiever type) but game that too passive or to little variation too are boring. i like to play oso if there are a mmorpg like that. because there vast variation to what we could do in the game. and the player are unpredicted because the combination on sense, you can only know a little bit if you already familiar with that player. like the 1st time yun being chase. yun do not know the chaser skill so does the chaser. and that is some of oso beauty.

    Reply
    1. AoriiAorii Post author

      I was commenting about how even spambots can produce more human-readable pieces of writing...
      Then I realized your IP was Indonesian...
      ...I wouldn't even be able to tell someone 'yes/no' in Indonesian.
      So... good job?

      That being said, work on your verb tenses. The confusion between simple past/present/future and progressive tenses is really killing your sentences. The rest of your English can at least get by.

      Reply
  8. Shino

    i would be falling under the achiever socializer and a bit of killer type in current mmo's .
    why 3 types? well im mostly playing the game and either want to play it to the end achiev something etc... then im often beeing one of the few in guilds who realy do socialize am working with the guild i like helping others (maybe because im learning to become a teacher^^) and for the last aspect i like using auction houses monopolising certain materials, or just go into PVP and own noobs.

    so far for my current game habbits what i hate for most mmo's is that they are to generic, there is just the one and only good build for ur character, crafting systems are mostly just there the get the items urself easier, and customization isat a very low level in my oppinion. Maybe thats the reasons i actualy start playing games with a high level of customization,for example fantasy live(3ds), and currently Harvest moon a new beginning(3ds).
    but on the other hand am still playing WOW weakly.

    so back to the topic i have to say i realy like the story of OSO particulary Yun as the MC. He/She tries to discover the crafting system ingame, likes to play the game in his/her own way and own pace. U dont see any player like this in games today anymore cause player who dont level fast enought or dont rech a certain level until a week stop playing the game in most MMO's if seen this generic barrier as level 20. and after watching those videos im understanding why. they are mostly explorer types.

    now i forgot what i actualy wanted to write

    Reply
  9. eluisin

    Mm... I wish there were more mmo's that offer more to explorers, outside of just new char classes or once a year expansions. When I find myself celebrating that I've managed to get on a ridge that only exists just to hold background textures, I begin to wonder if there's anything left for me in the game.

    I guess we'll have to wait for an era where Bethesda games don't glitch out for mmos to have dynamic skillsets that you can use creatively like in vrmmo stories.

    Reply
  10. azurekaito15

    hmm i don't know which type of player myself.

    I only play game so that i can find all the gamebreaker, disc one nuke, loophole abuse, etc... anything that i can do to make the game easier for me, most of the time...

    so under what type did i fall into?

    Reply
    1. AoriiAorii Post author

      if you like to find OP mechanics, you're an Achiever.
      Explorers aren't result driven, so it's not the power of the mechanic that entices them; it's how fun they found it. In fact, Explorers will often use gameplay knowing they will lose but they'll still do it because they find it funny/fun.

      In fact, a lot of trolls are Explorers. But they're more an annoyance than a frustration (compared to Killers) since they'll often do silly stuff but not necessarily kill you.

      Reply
  11. Iza

    I don't read the comments so I wouldn't know but are there really that many people that complain about Yun's choice of enjoyment in a game that basically tells you to enjoy it how you the player(in this case Yun's) wants to? That's like telling a person who likes to fish to go harvest crops. Not everyone enjoys grinding for OP/endgame gear or proclaming theirself topdog but instead prefer to fully enjoy and explore a game. An example of that would be when I decided to see what I could "climb" in the MMO Eden Eternal and ended up on top of one of the statues in Aven lol.

    Reply
    1. Arthur

      Yeah, there are quite a few who do. Not just here but a couple of other forums that link here or host the manga version too. The usual pattern is right after Yun finds something or discovers something they all clammor about how the character or the author or both are dumb since they didn't immediately try to exploit the new thing to the max. Check out the comments in the first volume. They're all similar.

      Reply
  12. k

    Guess I'am more of a Skill Explorer then... In Maplestory, what i like the most is new update that introduce new character, with new skillset and weapon and stuff...I'm usually get bored with grinding though

    Reply
  13. Daitengu

    I wish there was a 5th category of "Crafter/builder". I'm a hardcore crafter. Ever since Minecraft came out, I've pretty much stopped playing MMOs. Battling gets stale eventually, and I abhor PVP. Never really been into raiding though I've been dragged into it. The game I spent most of my time playing before Minecraft would be Everquest. And I was just grinding mats, and crafting 80% of the time. Goal? If I had one it was just to craft. I don't particularly care to discover, nor to I care to optimize what I craft. I just like to make buildings of various styles, build farms, craft interesting things. Unfortunately gold sellers and killers have destroyed crafters in most games, because the they broke the economy, and it can't support them. Thus, when it became impossible to gather and craft solo, I quit. Same with Warcraft, Vindictus, Star Wars, Wildstar, and Blade n Soul.

    Neptunia and Minecraft, the only games I've played for 3 years now. The two fill my manly cravings for crafting, and cute girls with yuri undertones.

    I can appreciate OSO and Yun because his thought process is similar to mine. Combat is just a way to get the things needed to craft cheaply.

    Reply
    1. AoriiAorii Post author

      Again, these roles are not about game behavior but game motivation. "To craft" is not a motivation.
      In general, bulk crafters are Achievers because of a desire to accumulate/stockpile, while experimental crafters are Explorers.

      Reply
  14. Jude McCabe

    Out of all the games I've played, I think that the souls series does a really good job of balancing the Explorer, Achiever and the Killer archetypes (partly social as well but not anywhere near as much), and also blends them together giving achievers who play the game for the success and glory a chance at pvp scenarios, by making it a constant threat in the pve, while they also leave a huge amount of information in terms of both gameplay and story up to the players to find, meaning explorers can have a lot of fun too, but they need to become somewhat achieverish to do so.

    Social activites are also really unique in the souls series due to three things
    1) summoning in a friend to help, when this happens people find the respite from the lonely hardships to be quite nice, despite how brief it is
    2) when people start to talk about the lore and the weapons sharing their opinions on these matter making quite heated debates
    3) when people perform pvp, and despite no one telling the community to do so, no one heals, you start with a bow or wave, and then you start a fight to the death

    its stuff like this where people have created a system to maintain honour, when they truly value your existence as someone helping them through a level, when they fully embrace the game and try all parts of it, that is when truly amazing games start to form. Basically, no matter how good the game is if it doesn't encourage a community to form it wont last long.

    Reply
  15. Ynotkali

    I'm definitely an achiever, however I am also a killer, an explorer and a socializer. I explore every corner to get just one more thing. I socialize to get information in order to get better. If there are items I can only get by killing I will do it, like faction items. And if I can't get everything in just one run, I'll redo it on the opposite side. I could say I'm all 4, but I really just use them to get stronger in that particular game.

    Reply
    1. AoriiAorii Post author

      I should note that a lot of people are reading this wrong. The point of the categorization is that it's not how you play, it's why you play. If you're exploring for the sake for achieving, that still means you're an Achiever and not Explorer. To be categorized as partially or wholly an Explorer, you must "Explore for the sake of exploration" -- it's not the goal you care about, but the experience/joy of finding/creating itself.

      Socializing to get better is not the trait of a Socializer, that's the trait of an Achiever who simply happens to use socializing to get his results. A Socializer will "Socialize for the sake of socialization". The most common trait of a Socializer is that they will spend many hours within a game not talking about the game itself -- the game is just a platform for them to get social time in.

      aka they don't care about your "traits" as a gamer, only your "motivation". The best way to gauge this is not by thinking back to how you play, but -- Why did you buy a game? What were the selling points that made you starry eyed? Why did you quit the game in frustration? What were the inexcusable changes they made that you could not tolerate?

      Achievers will think about all the advanced challenges/mechanics they show off that you can do in the game. Explorers will remember all the tiny basic stuff that can be manipulated (or amazing background visuals) which hints at a world being your sandbox. Socializers won't join a game until they've heard many of their friends are on it and excited about it. Killers... I have no idea; pvp zones?

      Reply
      1. Trainee35

        Killers will either find enjoyment in beating strong players (Achiever-Killer hybrids), have fun killing weaker people, and/or kill for stress-relief.

        Reply
          1. sindarpos

            grand theft auto... not an mmo, but a lot of people bought those games for "stress relief." me, I found solace in driving on the downtown sidewalks during rush hour :P

  16. Kearnaun

    And for some reason I am now thinking about pick your own path LitRPG stories. A little something for (almost) every type of gamer. Too bad that writing something that would offer paths for every type of gamer/reader would probably be hell ... the thought still is tempting though.

    Reply
  17. Nekomimik

    That is seriously beautiful Aorii-shisho!!! This pretty much cleared up my vague ideas of what kind of player Yun really is! I do love OP MC and how authors tries different angles to make somebody OP, especially in an VRMMORPG or RPG-esque setting. But I far enjoy Yun's adventure than any of those and in fact, continue to re-read the volumes while waiting for Krykal-sama to finish translating the volume 8.

    As for me, I can say I'm an adventurer and achiever with a bit of socializer. I like exploring new stuff in a game like possible builds, possible ways to level and especially explore the whole game world itself. One of the main reasons why I like a game with high graphics like PSO2, Blade and Soul and so on (even though I only played PSO2 due to reasons ; w ; ). In the same time, I love the thrill in fighting something beyond my level, grinding and killing stuff so I can try out my builds and such which is why I can say i'm an achiever. Albeit, I'll say I'm more of an adventurer than achiever since killing stuff gets old and that's where messing with other people in-game comes in.

    I really like the world of OSO and I hope a game like that and not to mention a VR comes along. If it does, I'll likely end up being Myu/Taku though a bit more laid-back in the gaming and prefer exploring stuff.

    Reply
  18. Emptyness

    I would say i fall into the explorer/acheiver categories. i like to play any game just to see what's in it and use what ever tiny thing i found to an advantage to complete the game xD... that's why to me updates are gods, i mean more place to explore more little things to use it all piles up. I do my fair share of grinding and raiding on MMOs but all of that is just to experience the highlevel areas that needs to be explored though completing the whole game with achievement and all is always fun xD

    Reply
    1. AoriiAorii Post author

      Personally I believe that the Achiever/Explorer category should be the most prevalent one -- because exploration of the unknown to fulfill one's curiosity is a core element of all human beings. We all experience this when we went through childhood, and curiosity might dim with maturity but it never goes away.

      There are plenty who are Introverts and have very little social demand (Socializer type), and lots of submissive personalities who lack the desire to dominate (Killer type); but I have never heard of those who are simply 'Incurious'. It'd be like meeting a person who says he wants nothing but Pepperoni Pizza for every meal...

      So to me, the only reasons why Achiever/Killer and Achiever/Socializer combos are dominating the triple-A game market is because this market is sorely lacking in creativity -- the essential element for allowing Explorers to realize themselves.

      Try playing any guidelined(goal-driven) game that also has a sandbox-y environment and you suddenly discover that Explorers quickly start to dominate it, and since Explorers benefit both Achievers and Socializers, I personally see this as a good thing.

      Reply
      1. Arthur

        It may be something of a Catch 22. Most of the games out there are for the Killer or Socializer combos, so that's who buy and play the games. Since the companies produce content for those who buy them, they make Killer & Socializer content. Rinse and repeat. On the occasions when someone produces a game for Explorer types the, other groups either smother it or it dies of apathy before it can flourish.

        Reply
  19. Kisato

    I suppose that I fall in the Explorer category. I'm often a solo player feeling the need to party up out of necessity more then the desire for contact. When I play a level I often explore every possible turn and won't leave until every rock is turned.

    Reply
  20. Ratzy

    I play Black desert right now and i found out im a bit more like Yun/Shun as i prefer to do something like fishing and earn enough money and buy my gears. i craft most of my stuff and discover some quest that helps my guild. i may say i like achieving as i maintain my rank in fishing rank (though it is channel based) and i do socialize a lot though im not a socializer (i prefer playing alone rather than in a party). We are getting closer and closer to OSO as ive seen with black desert.

    Reply
  21. bladerain

    Well, this is actually quite true. It's similar to how readers and writers are. Writers have far more problems than other people like conversations, plot, and grammar. Anyways, this is actually quite true in the gaming world. Ever heard of Tinier Me? That game ended already. It was fun, a game meant for socializing and stuff but it ended anyways.

    Reply
  22. LeeFowler

    I fall under heavily explorer. Though I find myself more of creator. I'm more enticed by building games like Minecraft. Though I still am decent at strategy games, though I don't play them much after seeing faces of defeat because of playing risk.
    If there was a system in a multiplayer game where you could create items similar to OSO, I would be onboard as soon as I was to hear it. Irl, I've been learning silversmithing. I'm also a lapidiarian, a rock and mineral nerd. So collecting items in a game is something I would go for, like yun collect and polishes rock and gems she finds out exploring. Heck, I even into archery, and have looked into making my own arrows. (You can see why I love OSO so much)
    The reasons I don't play MMO's, is because I am not social, I can tolerate it, but I'm scared of people I haven't connected with (sharing similar interest kinda connect). And because I hate grinding for levels. For projects, I don't mind grinding, though I switch between projects usually.
    So if a game had building system where in a smithing shop, you take metal that is a structured mesh similar to how atoms work, and you could move/cut/melt the metal to how you want. Add varried metals with different strength requirements, and you have a way to make complex items to draw in achievers.
    Though I did say creator, can we make a sub category called developer? I'd defiantly be that. (I've even made a decent boardgame before)

    Reply
  23. Dragon_ANGL

    Thanks for the information, but I must digress on an important point. Yun's a human. Therefore she'd be part of the logistics of the Alliance, not the Horde. :)

    Reply
  24. Arthur

    Aorii, that was an outstanding explanation, and a much needed one as well! This isn't meant as criticism towards Krytyk since he obviously understood this, but I never thought that much into it, I just accepted that Yun was never into the level all skills as fast as possible thing.

    If possible it might be a good idea to include a link or the actual post to the chapter list or maybe the download page so others can benefit from the well explained discourse.

    Reply
  25. Bai

    Totally agree.. I read OSO mainly coz I feel my playstyle will concentrate more on developing stuff then grind kill grind.

    Sick of people telling me to cap this cap that every week in FFXIV which makes the game feels more like work then play. :(

    Reply
  26. Bielt

    I'm a Explorer type, every time i see a new game I can't stop thinking of new builds, play styles, how to use the skills in a more efficient way, how to use skills/classes that people think of bad in a god way, how to use the environment to gain advantage, creating new combos and new technics/strategies. Always trying to see what others didn't, as long as there are more things to try I can't help my self from creating new characters and re starting every thing. But at the same time I have already lost the cont of how many games I never finish because it didn't offer me new ways of playing, limiting me to just use the same things in every fight, making the game lost its "shine" the thrill of making the unknown and discovering if it will work or not, and if not how to make it.

    I think that is why I like so much OSO, Yun is play it in a diferent way using different things in a way no one tryed, making good use of what people thought to be useless.

    Reply
  27. dnomyar

    pfff that 360 noscope being put under the achievers..... thats the most silly thing i came across in that video.....

    99% of those crappy people trying to pull that off are hackers using some kind of aim assist... which would put them in the killer group... trying to cause grief

    for the rest a pretty educational video.

    Reply
  28. krytykkrytyk

    While you can categorize me into the "Achiever" type, as I've always been a hardcore raider, I have to say that OSO's environment could possibly entrance me to play the explorer and socializer styles as well. I think the whole concept of VR, with absolute player presence inside the game and the mechanics of OSO which give nearly infinite exploration possibilities which aren't just pointless "achievs" and fluff but also actually play important role in the game could entice me into doing those. All in all, the whole VR immersive ecosystem with nearly infinite possibilities makes the game itself completely different and incomparable with anything else.

    It should be also noted that even Achievers (raiders) are heavy Socializer types, for anyone who has been playing the hardcore raiding (in the hard games) it's obvious that without really good social bonds and basic understanding of each other you cannot have a guild do anything, and as such part of the Achievers aiming for raiding are also hardcore Socializers at the same time.

    Another case is that some people don't consider that for Yun, everything is happening at the same time, the time he has is limited and the amount of his hobbies is immense. As such he doesn't have unlimited time to research everything. He doesn't know what will happen ahead of time and as such blaming him for spontaneous decisions isn't a good idea.

    Reply
    1. AoriiAorii Post author

      Explorers are actually the hardest of the four player types to pull in -- mostly because it takes true creativity to pull in Explorer types; if a game is just another run of the mill MMO or RPG, then chances are the Explorers have already experienced everything it has to offer in a different game. Honestly, most Explorers aren't gamers -- because no matter how complex a game can get, it'll never be as complex as "IRL". Those who do play have a tendency to focus on Exploration-centric games (for world-explorers) and strategy games (for mechanics explorers)... because only strategy games truly tap the complexity of intricately deep systems.

      I'm an Explorer type myself, and I've spent countless hours trying to figure out how to create a new item with super high effectiveness, or start up an entire game just to test another playstyle. Etc etc.

      What these videos fail to note is that many Explorers also share an Achiever mentality, and as such, they hate Killers. As a result, many Explorers fall back to single-player open-world games where they couldn't be trolled.

      Also, not all raiders are socializers. I've seen guilds in my brief MMO periods that only care about results and do almost nothing to foster camaraderie. In this case, it's their collective goal of achieving, not the socialization, that holds them together.

      Reply
      1. krytykkrytyk

        I don't agree that all raiders aren't socializers, these guilds crumble way too fast. With everyone item-mongering for themselves the internal conflicts appears right away and the result is usually disbanding of the guild.

        Reply
        1. AoriiAorii Post author

          I said "not all raiders are socializers", not "all raiders are not socializers". There's... a pretty big difference xD

          Reply
          1. krytykkrytyk

            Hardcore raiders have to be socializers or they're out, if someone doesn't fit in he's on out right away. And if the guild isn't hardcore, it means it's a social raiding guild.

          2. Anonymous

            But sometimes though or most often than not, it is those hardcore raiders that socialize with themselves because you know, the question where( or what) else isn't explored. They basically interact with other people on the way of their exploration and then my time is up...

      2. Master_tonberry

        "I've spent countless hours trying to figure out how to create a new item with super high effectiveness,"

        Would that be regarding atelier games, or something else?

        And more on topic I guess I'm an achiever/explorer? Working out how to make an item just the way I want or seeing an incredible new sight is always a rush (I miss the old hand drawn backgrounds in some of the older RPGs)

        Reply
        1. AoriiAorii Post author

          Atelier.
          I once spent 5 hours and left pages full of notes on the forward/backward transmutations on how to create a weapon ingot with the exact five traits I wanted.
          ...and I thought it was time well spent and was proud of my creation =)

          Reply
          1. krytykkrytyk

            I know that feeling. It's exactly the same feeling I get when I finish up colouring an illustration. "The" satisfaction.

          2. Gurbo

            Ha! A kindred spirit :D
            I cannot avoid theorycrafting absolutely every game I get my hands on... well, except tetris and similar "no time to think" games xD
            I have 2 or 3 notebooks just full of charts, leveling paths, building plans, etc from various games... but I differ from you a bit, deep down, I'm a killer in most of the senses the video described.

            I like choking an entire server's economy (and managed to do it once, it was hilarious, a free playing user having the most power on a p2w game), or gaining political power, but overall, what I like is finding methods to surpass everyone else and be able to fight WAY above my weight class. PK hunting, wallet warrior hunting, fighting against my own counters or generally against people I shouldn't be able to beat thanks to strategy.
            And there I go back to a trait of the explorers: I don't mind dying, because in those fights I was already supposed to die. If I win, I get a thrill, if I lose, it's back to research. And I freaking love research :D

            But just one more thing: not all killers are asses. I only attack if it provides a challenge, or another good reason, and I'd rather win a worthy adversary than make enemies and annoy people, and over the years I've met many people like me, that would rather have an "honorable" war than a petty vindictive one.

          3. Owl

            Gurbo, good for you, but like always, there are all kinds of people in the world and some just get a kick out of farming newbies. So even within these classifications, there are also sub classifications too and even a mix. You're probably a Killer/Achiever. As Kry and Aorii also noted, there are also Achiever/Socializers or pure Achievers etc.

            Maybe next time someone complains, we can quote OSO's motto. :)

            "Only one playstyle"
            or more precisely
            "Your own unique playstyle".

          4. Caudyr

            Ah, yes. I know that feeling as well. When I finally finish a section of code I was either struggling with, or was REALLY long...it's like: Ah, finally done! *YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS*

            I don't really go to those depths with theorycraft, but then again I don't really play Atelier games (not that I don't WANT to =x).

            I'm all about maximizing my character's efficacy and efficiency with what I've got...and like Gurbo, I've always been able to pull out more power from my character than what you'd expect.

            Always surprised people in EQ when they suddenly saw a rogue soloing something they shouldn't be able to solo because they're pretty squishy. XD

            ...god I really want an OSO-like game...especially if it's a VRMMO. I'd probably be a combination of Taku/Myu/Sei and Yun, tbh. Go for the good skills for combat, but taking plenty of auxiliary skills as well because I want to be able to do that stuff. =x

            I'd honestly probably take EVERY crafting skill at some point, haha (and try to find ways for them to interact with each other, etc.)...I absolutely love crafting.........when it's not extremely tedious and irritating, heh.

    2. Caudyr

      Yeah, interestingly enough...many hardcore raiders (myself included) will fall into the 3 categories of Achiever, Socializer AND Explorer.

      Their exploration will typically be limited to finding and solving quests/raids, finding ways into new zones, and things like that...but...it's still effective.

      I was a nightly raider in EQ for many years (i wasn't "hardcore" in that i had to be in the best guild on the best server or anything like that)...and I agree that socialization is very much required for a guild to have any sort of longevity. It doesn't have to be a massive amount of socializing...but I was always in the "mid-tier" guilds, because I liked how they did stuff together, socialized with each other, just talked in guild chat in general, etc. outside of raid times.

      As for Killers...luckily EQ made it so you couldn't really "KILL" people outright unless you challenge them to a duel or you go onto a PVP server (though you could troll them w/trains and stuff like that)...but I never cared for them myself. Granted, if the PVP mechanics are interesting enough, I might be into it...but...yeah. I loved how Yun took care of the MPKer in the early part of the series, though. XD

      If I were to play a game like OSO, I'd probably join a guild like the Eight Million Gods, tbh. However, I'd probably not be focused on the grind, my levels, or raiding. Things like that. I'd probably be in a guild like that but be like Yun, just...I would group more often. I think that would be the main difference, heh.

      I love crafting in games in general, and exploring...so group stuff would be great, but...raid stuff...I dunno. There's so much to do in a game like OSO where it has near infinite possibilities and whatnot, that I think I wouldn't want to waste a lot of time on raiding, but on other aspects of the game instead. Of course, that doesn't mean I wouldn't raid.

      I'm eagerly waiting for VRMMOs to become a real thing, and for one at least similar to this to come out...so I can play the living crap out of it. =D

      Also, this was a great post. I do wonder why Yun doesn't do some stuff (as evidenced by some of my comments)...but it's not like I think he's a bad gamer. I just wish I could see more experimentation with some of his senses like Enchant and stuff...instead of JUST mainly with Dosing, Cooking, Alchemy and Synthesis. =x

      Can't wait for more OSO chapters, though! =D

      Reply
  29. Kensei Seraph

    Those videos were very interesting.
    Thanks for sharing them.

    I think that I'm probably a mix of Explorer and Achiever with more of an emphasis on the Explorer aspect.

    As for the people who are complaining, at least that means that OSO is a incredibly well-crafted world that those people would love to be able to enjoy in their own way.

    Reply
  30. Kemm

    I don't know where the problem was.

    Since the start, and without knowing that taxonomy, I had tagged Yun as someone who plays the game as just an extension of leisure time, but with a mindset that pure inactivity is bad. What I mean by that is that the reason he plays is to spend more quality time with his family and friends, make new acquaintances and mostly have fun by experimenting and doing manual labor/arts and crafts. While the character build is a collection of uncommon senses, there's still a subjacent line behind the choosing of each of them that points clearly to a dream build with a mix of fantasy and handicrafts, build with the sole intention of just enjoying something he cannot do in real (or as trial for things he can do, like cooking).

    The only ones who would get mad for him treating a game as just personal enjoyment would be, taking it from that taxonomy, ultimate achievers who believe the point behind a game is getting to the end with the max points or plain killers that only find fun in killing (mobs may do, but players have more complex reactions). I personally think that it's a very good way to play.

    PS. The playing style has some similarities with mine, but only in the "explorer" part, as I tend more to "achiever" than "socializer" (have troubles getting to know people or keeping in contact).

    Reply
  31. Truth

    Lol, if Yun played like a normal player, I'd lose all interest in this LN. Would go read one of those generic MC is OP in game novels.

    Yun playing like that makes this entertaining for me and relaxing.

    Reply
    1. ADE

      Exactly this.

      OSO and Toaru Ossan no VRMMO Katsudouki is interesting because they tackle the different aspects of gamer (taxonomy). They're playing leisurely, checking out aspects of the game other than combat and level/stats, finding exploits, and overall having fun.

      Sure, there are excitements in questing, dungeon raiding and overall adventuring. But this novel is not about that. This is just the daily life of casual gamer.

      As for me, I'm a hardcore explorer myself. I do everything I can in breaking the game. I punch everything to see what's destroyable. I walk in between two walls to test the collider. I dodge roll into everything to test the invincibilty frames and hit boxes. I try to circumvent invisible walls by going at it in different angles. I cause digit overflow by manipulating the shopkeeper into buying more than I had in my inventory. I study the boss' pattern and abuse the AI's algorithm for no damage 5 sec kill. I min-max my characters and equipments, and go further to create an unstoppable juggernaut, in the beginning of the game.

      And when everything within game limitation (after glitch exploit) have been explored, it's time to do it all again, with action replay/gameshark/memory modifier/private server.

      Reply
    2. Sigel

      I totally agree with you. It's because Yun chooses to play differently to most others that this LN is so interesting.

      The fact that what he chooses to do actually ends up working well wouldn't be possible in any current game. But that's only design flaw of current games. If an MMO with that much exploration and diversity was designed for real then it'd be the one to get me back into MMOs.

      Reply